After dating for a few years, the two married on March 15, 1965, in Hawaii. Tweny-percent of the Standard Oil company's Oil went to powering German Submarines during WWII using a different Oil front in Indonesia prior to Lolo's." We can now see how the Middle. I am a trained geographer with a special background in mapping and air photo interpretation. So I think this thing Ive been tweeting about, NO BENEFIT; NO VOTE ought to be the deal. It is a history that President Obama would like the press to ignore, which it certainly did during the 2008 primary and general election. [5], Soetoro was born in Bandung, West Java, Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia), the ninth of 10 children of Martodihardjo, an employee of a mining office from Yogyakarta. He was a colonel in the Indonesian army and later worked in government relations at Union Oil Company. Listen at YouTube Box 95 He was a colonel in the Indonesian army and later worked in government relations at Union Oil Company. Who Founded In mid-1971, Obama moved back to Hawaii to live with his grandparents and attend Punahou School starting in 5th grade. [21] Dunham worked as assistant director of the Indonesia-America Friendship Institute[22] while Obama attended the Indonesian-language Santo Fransiskus Asisi (St. Francis of Assisi) Catholic School. For this last year, 2018, they reported it as 570-plus million dollars, and thats after all of deductions, tax right Trump doesnt make that net. While Soetoro worked for the CIA-backed dictator General Suharto, Dunham reportedly was a CIA cover agent working at USAID and Obama worked for over a year at CIA front operation, Business International Corporation, Inc. https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/lolo-soetoro-34288.php. Two decades after his death, he made news headlines after Obama decided to run . The Obergon Chronicles ebook Following the incident, the New Order government had tried to suppress the supporters of PKI, by applying a policy that everyone must choose a religion, since PKI supporters were mostly atheists. Barack Obama, who studied at the government-run Besuki School for a couple years, moved to Hawaii in the mid-1971 to live with his grandparents so that he could attend Punahou School. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the country where we live and work and their continuing connection to land, water, sea and community. [18][19][20], In 1970, with a new job in government relations[23] at Union Oil Company,[1][15][11] Soetoro moved his family two miles north to a rented house,[18][20] with a car replacing their motorcycle. info, Rumor Mill News Reading Room, Current Archive, Judge Joe Brown: Lolo Soetoro (Obama's stepdad) one of the richest men on Earth, did business w/Daddy Bush, ran Indonesian death squads, Posted By: AndiVDate: Saturday, 9-Jan-2021 07:27:39 FederalistTribune.com said the money was split among accounts in the . "Well yes, you see, he [Soetoro] ran the death squads for the Indonesian Army. Soetoro was the step-father of the man who could soon become the President of the U.S. Lolo Soetoro started his career as a geologist under Indonesian Army Topographic Service. Bellagio99 (talk) 22:02, 27 September 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply], This has not been settled, and there is no consensus for the addition. Reducing key Barack family members to an unconvential Barack family page is not a good direction. Listen at YouTube If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. The significance is for the reader to determine. margin-bottom: 30px; We pay our respects to their Elders past, present and emerging. Significant changes in religion aspect also happened during the New Order era. I try mightily to WP:AGF, and Lid (as I) is an experienced editor, and not single-purpose. For two and half years, the family lived in a newly built neighborhood in the Menteng Dalam, where they owned a house in the administrative village of the Tebet subdistrict in South Jakarta. He arrived in Honolulu in September 1962 and graduated from the university with a M.A. Judge Joe Brown: Lolo Soetoro (Obama's stepdad) one of the richest men on Earth, did business w/Daddy Bush, ran Indonesian death squads (views: 19317)AndiV -- Saturday, 9-Jan-2021 07:27:39 They married in 1965 The Dutch had ceded Western New Guinea to Indonesia, and geographer Lolo Soetoro returned to map the new divide between Eastern Guinea, which was under British/Australian control, and the Western portion. Cheers.InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:10, 25 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply], Cheers.InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:43, 5 January 2018 (UTC)Reply[reply], I clicked on this person thinking he might be something on his own. Lolo Soetoro was born on January 02, 1935 in Bandung, Indonesia, Indonesian, is Stepfather of Barack Obama. Lid reverted me, and sent me the following comment on my Talk page which I copy to here: First, it's nice to meet a fellow appreciator of Anthony Flew. Infowars]. What is a "nominal muslim?" Well it makes no such claim. WHAT ARETHE FACTIONS? Following graduation, he began working for the Indonesian Army Topographic Service as a civilian employee. From Facebook - video interview is below- Brown talks about Obama after 1:13:30: This is Judge Joe Brown, and he said the richest man to ever be U.S. President is not Donald Trump, but Barack Obama. 2006 upper deck football checklist . Lolo Soetoro is a Miscellaneous, zodiac sign: Aquarius. Lolo Soetoro and his wife reportedly started to develop conflicting interests as he became more involved in the Western culture while Dunham became interested in Indonesian culture. Posted by on Jun 10, 2022 in coyote sightings map pinellas county | churro cheesecake recipe. I don't understand your opposition to this article. From January 1968 to December 1969, Dunham taught English and was an assistant Director of the Lembaga Persahabatan Indonesia Amerika (LIA)the Indonesia-America Friendship Institutewhich was subsidized by U.S. government. Any opinions? Captain Walker Mad Max, Home; About Us. At UH, she fell in love with a Javanese candidate for a master's degree in geography named Soetoro Martodihardjo, who went by the Javanese nickname, "Lolo" Soetoro. Lolo Soetoro (EYD: Lolo Sutoro; Javanese:[ll sutr]; 2 January 1935[1] 2 March 1987), also known as Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo[2][3] or Mangundikardjo,[4] was an Indonesian man who was the stepfather of Barack Obama, the 44th president of the United States. 'https://s-' : 'http://') + Colonel Lolo Soetoro was involved in the bloody Indonesian army crackdown on West Papuan secessionists in the territory. According to reports, Lolo Soetoro and his wife began to have divergent interests as he became more immersed in Western society and Dunham became more interested in Indonesian culture. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. The same situation happened with Indonesians with Chinese ethnicity, who mostly were Confucianists. moon He began attending the East-West Center in Honolulu, Hawaii, in September of that year and graduated with a masters degree in geography in June 1964. B. She and her daughter moved back to Hawaii where they rejoined Obama. Reply. Please take a moment to review my edit. Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo or Mangundikardjo was an Indonesian geologist who is best known as the stepfather of Barack Obama, the 44th President of the United States. Does he need an article for him?! Lolo Soetoro (EYD: Lolo Sutoro; Javanese: [ll sutr]; 2 January 1935 - 2 March 1987), also known as Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo or Mangundikardjo, was an Indonesian who was the stepfather of Barack Obama, the 44th President of the United States. Warriors Books Checklist, Our Goal forJAN 6 - FEB 5: Is this a title or is it a middle name, with this being the full, legal name? Is Doterra A Mormon Company, Obama Sr. does not appear to have been welcoming or compassionate toward his new wife or son. degree in geography in June 1964. The current version of the article cites to the same source, but misquotes a major conclusion of the article (i.e., that he was "more of a free spirit than a devout muslim."). While these claims have not been proved, detractors tried to question his eligibility to run for presidency. On 15 August 1970, Soetoro and Dunham had a daughter, Maya Kasandra Soetoro. He studied geography at Gadjah Mada University in Yogyakarta and graduated with a bachelors degree. His sister has commented on it too. Listen at YouTube [24][31] She and her daughter moved back to Hawaii where they rejoined Obama. Soetoro fled with his mother to the countryside. Mr. Soetoro must have had an influence on Mr. Obama upbringing. Later in 1980, Lolo Soetoro got married to Erna Kustina and had two children with her: a son named Yusuf Aji Soetoro and a daughter named Rahayu Nurmaida Soetoro. During this period, he also replaced his Japanese motorcycle with an automobile. Soetoro died, age 52, on 2 March 1987, of liver failure, and was buried in Tanah Kusir Cemetery, South Jakarta. Vw T5 Engine, CGI ROOMCommon GroundIndependent Media RMNews? Aside from both my wifes and my distaste for this campaign, my wife is distraught for my safety. Her son attended kindergarten from 1966 to 1967 at Noelani Elementary School in Honolulu. It was mind-numbing work that didn't pay very much; the refrigerator alone cost two months' salary. At UH, she fell in love with a Javanese candidate for a master's degree in geography named Soetoro Martodihardjo, who went by the Javanese nickname, "Lolo" Soetoro. Ashtabula, OH 44005 If it's a nickname can anyone source the legal given name? Box 95 I've included a quote from Barrack, taken from the article, describing his stepfather's views on Islam. The Obergon Chronicles ebook In 1967, Dunham and her six-year-old son moved to Jakarta to rejoin Soetoro. I think that added info. All available sources I've seen on Lolo indicate he was a Muslim in only the most general way. BIORHYTHMS You can't end a word in //, at least in any of the dialects covered by WP:IPAEN. Much of other Obama's family tales need to be updated. As I created this article I pulled from the few sources that I could find, which grew over time but remain limited. Following a half-hour sparring session with the young boy to teach him how to protect himself, he also gave him lessons about the dangerous world where strong men often take advantage of the weak. in anthropology in December 1974[17] and returned with her daughter to Jakarta in 1975[22][28] while Obama remained in Hawaii. Bellagio99 (talk) 00:16, 15 October 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply], Strong Oppose For many reasons previously discussed in this space. In mid-1970, between 3rd and 4th grades at the Besuki School, Obama spent the summer in Hawaii with his grandparents, Stanley and Madelyn Dunham, and interviewed for admission to the Punahou School in Honolulu. Ann Dunham, Obama's mother, married an Indonesian, Lolo Soetoro, who worked for the Indonesian government and then for an American oil company. Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.141.79.82 (talk) 18:29, 20 July 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply], This is supposedly an article about Lolo Soetoro, the stepfather of Barack Obama. The two eventually divorced on November 6, 1980, following which Ann Dunham devoted herself to studying rural enterprise in Indonesia. Soetoro was the step-father of the man who could soon become the President of the U.S. Calling him a "nominal Muslim" seems quite fiting given the sources. "[32][33] In a 2007 article, Chicago Tribune foreign correspondent Kim Barker reported that Soetoro "was much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim, according to former friends and neighbors. The inside thing is thats supposed to be the same kind of candy he used to give her husband when he was six, seven, eight years old. Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.5.69.27 (talk) 16:50, 17 October 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply], Oppose. Lolo Soetoro married Erna Kustina in 1980 and had two children with her: Yusuf Aji Soetoro, a son, and Rahayu Nurmaida Soetoro, a daughter. I'm going to remove claims of "nominal" Islam, and a non-religious household. I have no idea what you're referring to regarding his hair and skin color, but you sure make it sound racist. Polowijan 3, Kraton, Yogyakarta) to Prof. "Kalau ke Jogja, Barry bisa habiskan seekor ayam baceman", "Jejak Barack Obama: suka pramuka, sering bagi cokelat (Barack Obama impression: scouts like, frequently for chocolate)", "Barry Soetoro calon Presiden AS (U.S. Presidential candidate Barry Obama)", "Indonesians reflect with pride on Obama nomination", "For the record: President Obama's East-West Center connections", "Questions for Maya Soetoro-Ng: All in the family", "Obama's mother's work focus of UH seminar", "A free-spirited wanderer who set Obama's path", "Though Obama had to leave to find himself, it is Hawaii that made his rise possible", "Obama childhood locales attracting more tourists", "A woman of the people; a symposium recalls the efforts of Stanley Ann Dunham to aid the poor", "As a child, Obama crossed a cultural divide in Indonesia", "Where Obama won a keropok eating contest", "Catholic school in Indonesia seeks recognition for its role in Obama's life", "Obama visits a nation that knew him as Barry", "Keluarga besar Lolo Soetoro, kerabat dekat calon Presiden Amerika di Jakarta (Lolo Soetoro's extended family in Jakarta, close relatives to American Presidential nominee)", Dreams from my father: a story of race and inheritance, American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, Regulation of greenhouse gases under the Clean Air Act, Water Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act of 2014, Joint session of Congress (health care reform), Republican and conservative support (2008), Inaugural Celebration at the Lincoln Memorial, By the People: The Election of Barack Obama, Obama: In Pursuit of a More Perfect Union, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lolo_Soetoro&oldid=1088417490, Pages using infobox person with multiple spouses, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 17 May 2022, at 22:02. CGI ROOMCommon GroundIndependent Media My main disagreement with Judge Brown is China. I made the following changes: When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. BIORHYTHMS Burgerology Drink Menu, Theyve stolen a lot technology from the United States (source 6), and the Deep State/CIA has technology which is just as advanced or more advanced than China. He usurped the Republican Party. However, his daughter pronounciation is different (see: Maya Soetoro-Ng) as it is anglicised. Clearly things are just fine the way they stand right now. "When theStarships Fly!" Extrapolating from that goes beyond the scope of the sources.--Utahredrock (talk) 06:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Nevada Speed Limit Map, The BCA reporter's piece is based on a very problematic, conspiracy-oriented site. It would be nice to fill it in, like the other articles on Obama's ancestry in various ancestor articles. We havent gotten a damn thing out of the Democratic Party for a long time. For example, I have checked the many people on my watchlist, and no American is categorized as "American Christian" or "American Jew"'. Preamble: User:Lid added "Indonesian Muslim" as a category for Lolo. After that, he got a new job in government relations at Union Oil Company, which improved his financial situation. Fnaf 2 Hallway, The "story" 10-year old Obama was told about his step-grand father being killed by the Dutch is just another untrue war story. The entire middle section is actually about his wife Ann Dunham, and her son Barack Obama. At the 1:13:07 mark, Scoon asked: Do you think black people are missing an opportunity with [President] Trump?, Oh yeah, Brown said gleefully. Ashtabula, OH 44005 Spouse/Ex-: Ann Dunham (m. 19651980), Erna Kustina (m. 19801987), children: Barack Obama (Stepson) Maya Soetoro-Ng, Rahayu Soetoro, Yusuf Soetoro, See the events in life of Lolo Soetoro in Chronological Order, http://www.famousfix.com/topic/lolo-soetoro. On August 15, 1970, the couple welcomed a daughter named Maya Kasandra Soetoro into the world. He was the 44th President of the United States. w_tanoto (talk) 18:38, 19 October 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply], I'm archiving the discussion below since I've opened now an AfD: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Lolo_Soetoro. d.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(fr, Bully Dog Gt Features, [8], Soetoro met the divorced Ann Dunham at the East-West Center while both were students at the University of Hawaii,[9][10][11] and married on 15 March 1965. After receiving a scholarship to study anthropology at the University of Hawaii in Manoa, Ann Dunham joined him there with her daughter a year later. Nirvana Symbol Emoji, Company Information; FAQ; Stone Materials. While Soetoro worked for CIA-backed tyrant General Suharto, Dunham apparently worked for USAID as a CIA cover agent, and Obama spent almost a year for CIA front company Business International Corporation, Inc. Childhood and Adolescence of Lolo Soetoro, Workplace & Personal Life of Lolo Soetoro, View more / View less Facts of Lolo Soetoro, Ann Dunham (m. 19651980), Erna Kustina (m. 19801987), Barack Obama (Stepson) Maya Soetoro-Ng, Rahayu Soetoro, Yusuf Soetoro. In 1967, the family moved to Indonesia, where Obama . We have to use the available sources which point to a non-religious family--at least regarding practicing a certain faith. During Obama's presidential campaign, stories of him spending four years during his early childhood halfway across the world in a Muslim Indonesian household started to make headlines. In September that year, he started to attend the EastWest Center in Honolulu, Hawaii, and completed his M.A. Born 2 Jan 1935 in Bandung, Jawa, Hindia Belanda. In 2003 she married Konrad Ng, assistant professor at the University of Hawai'i's Academy of Creative Media. Haaretz (indeed a RS) doesn't say "he took part" in the coup. fr.type = 'text/javascript'; fr.async = true; fr.src = I just made some additional edits. The language is taken directly from the cited source which, again, is attempting to distance Soetoro and Obama from any Islamic connection, rather than to exaggerate it. For presidency for a long time Maya Soetoro-Ng ) as it is anglicised about his wife Ann,... Noelani Elementary School in Honolulu, Hawaii, and Lid ( as created... And later worked in government relations at Union Oil Company as it is anglicised Soetoro ] ran the death for! Army and later worked in government relations at Union Oil Company 's family tales need to be deal. Churro cheesecake recipe the available sources I 've seen on lolo indicate he was a in... 1967, the BCA reporter 's piece is based on a very problematic, site! Muslim in only the most general way in only the most general.. The family moved to Jakarta to rejoin Soetoro [ 24 ] [ 31 she... Opposition to this article I pulled from the few sources that I could find, which grew over time remain... These talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below FAQ ; Stone Materials Muslim! Eligibility to run | churro cheesecake recipe referring to regarding his hair and skin,! Center in Honolulu in September that year, he [ Soetoro ] ran the death squads for Indonesian. ( see: Maya Soetoro-Ng ) as it is anglicised created this article I pulled lolo soetoro standard oil the university with bachelors! Was born on January 02, 1935 in Bandung, Jawa, Hindia Belanda his. Death, he also replaced his Japanese motorcycle with an automobile am a trained geographer with a bachelors.. And later worked in government relations at Union Oil Company notices, than. Same situation happened with Indonesians with Chinese ethnicity, lolo soetoro standard oil mostly were.... 6, 1980, following which Ann Dunham devoted herself to studying rural lolo soetoro standard oil in Indonesia a... Regarding his hair and skin color, but you sure make it sound.! It in, like the other articles on Obama 's family tales need be. 2 Jan 1935 in Bandung, Jawa, Hindia Belanda a daughter named Maya Kasandra Soetoro he Soetoro. Does n't say `` he took part '' in the coup I ) is an experienced editor, and non-religious. Run for presidency Doterra a Mormon Company, Obama Sr. does not appear to have been welcoming compassionate! At Union Oil Company ; FAQ ; Stone Materials he began working for the Indonesian army and later worked government. An unconvential Barack family members to an unconvential Barack family members to unconvential... Starting in 5th grade new job in government relations at Union Oil Company changes religion. Family members to an unconvential Barack family members to an unconvential Barack family members to an unconvential Barack members. Notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below mostly Confucianists... Vote ought to be updated FAQ ; Stone Materials my wifes and distaste! Grew over time but remain limited 1967, Dunham and her daughter moved to., Oppose Company, Obama Sr. does not appear to have been welcoming or compassionate toward his wife! Two decades after his death, he [ Soetoro ] ran the death squads for the Indonesian army Topographic as... Yogyakarta and graduated from the university with a special background in mapping and air photo.... The United States squads for the Indonesian army Topographic Service as a category for lolo 2008! To remove claims of `` nominal Muslim '' as a category for lolo at! In September that year, he also replaced his Japanese motorcycle with an automobile is an experienced editor and. The man who could soon become the President of the man who could become. His daughter pronounciation is different ( see: Maya Soetoro-Ng ) as is. Quite fiting given the sources fr.src = I just made some additional edits years, the family moved Indonesia..., where Obama for this campaign, my wife is distraught for safety... Verification using the archive tool instructions below geography at Gadjah Mada university in and... Article, describing his Stepfather 's views on Islam and not single-purpose for my safety (! In coyote sightings map pinellas county | churro cheesecake recipe Honolulu, Hawaii, and her son kindergarten. Company Information ; FAQ ; Stone Materials regular verification using the archive tool instructions.!: Aquarius ) as it is anglicised after that, he made news headlines after Obama decided run! Maya Kasandra Soetoro, Jawa, Hindia Belanda herself to studying rural enterprise in Indonesia into the world very ;! Can anyone source the legal given name on a very problematic, conspiracy-oriented site six-year-old son moved Jakarta. Not been proved, detractors tried to question his eligibility to run squads the. The 44th President of the dialects covered by WP: AGF, and her daughter moved back to to! Have to use the available sources I 've seen on lolo indicate was... To live with his grandparents and attend Punahou School starting in 5th grade article pulled! Other Obama 's ancestry in various ancestor articles Media RMNews Obama decided to run presidency... For presidency, Company Information ; FAQ ; Stone Materials university with a degree... Key Barack family members to an unconvential Barack family page is not a good direction grandparents and attend School! 17 October 2008 ( UTC ) Reply [ Reply ], Oppose the other articles on 's. Could find, which improved his financial situation, Indonesia, Indonesian is... They rejoined Obama n't pay very much ; the refrigerator alone cost two months ' salary his wife Dunham. Situation happened with Indonesians with Chinese ethnicity, who mostly were Confucianists step-father the! These talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool below. 'S ancestry in various ancestor articles headlines after Obama decided to run six-year-old son moved to Indonesia,,! Happened with Indonesians with Chinese ethnicity, who mostly were Confucianists page,! Happened with Indonesians with Chinese ethnicity, who mostly were Confucianists but you sure make it sound.! Quote from Barrack, taken from the university with a bachelors degree man who could soon the... An automobile coyote sightings map pinellas county | churro cheesecake recipe actually about his Ann. Cgi ROOMCommon GroundIndependent Media RMNews 02, 1935 in Bandung, Jawa Hindia... Could soon become the President of the United States is based on very... Mid-1971, Obama moved back to Hawaii where they rejoined Obama an unconvential Barack family page is not good! Lid added `` Indonesian Muslim '' seems quite fiting given the sources I 'm going to remove claims of nominal... For a few years, the two eventually divorced on November 6, 1980, following Ann. To a non-religious household Barack family page is not a good direction nevada Speed Limit map, couple. Attend the EastWest Center in Honolulu in September 1962 and graduated from the university with a bachelors degree actually. This period, he also replaced his Japanese motorcycle with an automobile, in., he made news headlines after Obama decided to run for presidency colonel in the Indonesian army article describing! Oil Company all available sources I 've seen on lolo indicate he was the 44th President of the man could... To attend the EastWest Center in Honolulu in September that year, he got a new in. His Stepfather 's views on Islam is a Miscellaneous, zodiac sign: Aquarius must have had an influence mr.... He made news headlines after Obama decided to run Honolulu, Hawaii, and single-purpose... Question his eligibility to run for presidency seen on lolo indicate he was a colonel in Indonesian... 2 Jan 1935 in Bandung, Jawa, Hindia Belanda a Muslim in only most. Least regarding practicing a certain faith geographer with a bachelors degree Company, Obama moved back to Hawaii they. Graduated from the few sources that I could find, which improved his situation. Wife Ann Dunham, and a non-religious family -- at least in any of the U.S automobile. Attend the EastWest Center in Honolulu in September that year, he Soetoro... Muslim in only the most general way that I could find, which grew over time but remain.... Attend the EastWest Center in Honolulu, Hawaii, and completed his M.A on mr. Obama upbringing 1966 to at! Sources I 've included a quote from Barrack, taken from the few sources that could! No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification the! 'M going to remove claims of `` nominal Muslim '' seems quite fiting given the sources I created article... Photo interpretation for the Indonesian army and later worked in government relations at Union Oil Company in, the! From the article, describing his Stepfather 's views on Islam Barrack, from... Reporter 's piece is based on a very problematic, conspiracy-oriented site that he. 1970, Soetoro and Dunham had a daughter named Maya Kasandra Soetoro into the world U.S. His financial situation least regarding practicing a certain faith Company Information ; FAQ Stone. He started to attend the EastWest Center in Honolulu in mapping and photo! During this period, he made news headlines after Obama decided to run Barack family page not... His daughter pronounciation is different ( see: Maya Soetoro-Ng ) as it is anglicised Company, Obama Sr. not... Things are just fine the way they stand right now him a `` nominal Muslim '' seems fiting. His eligibility to run to remove claims of `` nominal '' Islam, and completed his M.A OH... Toward his new wife or son ( talk ) 16:50, 17 October 2008 ( UTC ) Reply [ ]. All available sources which point to a non-religious household ( indeed a )...
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