Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. Falcon is especially broken as it handles like a light tank with 110mm of pen a super rapid fire rate. If you want to do well with germany, I'd recommend playing 5.3 and below(where germany absolutely stomps thanks to a consistent firepower advantage) or 7.7 and above(where germany stomps due to a mobility advantage). It is however annoying still though. No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. lol Germany (especially around the BR you're playing at) has literally some of the most insanely OP lineups in the game - packed with tanks / SPAA / CAS spam vehicles with mostly low spawn costs. FW 190's can go for air targets and ordnance is sufficient to bomb a tank and strafe lights. (and enjoy the performance of APCR). Only if you let him, if you did the smart thing you will set the rules of engagement and battleground long before they even considered such a thing. Rare, but happens from time to time Few wants to go for the objectives (which is more understandable when you consider the caps' terrible earnings) but fewer want to accept the consequences of not going for them. Thus, links were forged between the crime of public nuisance and the tort of private nuisance at an early stage in the development of the common law. Those things are a really easy kill as long as you see them first. In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? Fires, backs up to cover from return fire etc, flanks if need be. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. If you check old war images of M4 tanks, you will see that not all of them had turret mounted .50cals. You can do just as well with a vehicle that has different strengths if you use those strengths correctly. Armor profile is meh also and they are abit slower than the tiger 2s surprisingly. panzer ii ausf l luchs mit bildern panzer panzer ii. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. Are there no third positions or one that is at least more pragmatic? To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions.And BTW i also played all three major nations. While it is true that many people, with all sorts of involvement in other trees, play Germany it is also true that many of the people who play the German tree only play the German tech tree. I don't feel I need assume such things as this is already quite relevant to my interests. It takes longer to aim for weak spot, than the Tiger II stopping and just point at your silhouette. The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. Because its slow and big? Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. My general thoughts on what causes Germany to suffer: The Germans' main undoing are their teams--there's no doubt about it. And 5.7 tanks can pen American tanks. Then yes, M18 would be toast. Are king tigers unplayable? Doesn't fit good mobility meta. I agree though that the lines should be redone, but not only for Germany but for all the nations. Real German problem here---> East Germany, "Where's our tank? While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. And the side of the turret doesn't really mean alot as you can still punch through it with basically the same thing as the other you die no matter what so if you good up that shot its on you. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. If the team melts, the team melts. They've been in the game for years so to state that they've dropped off the face of the earth is anything but true. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. Theirs only one stabilized apds atgm thrower and its premium. If we're going to go with just the general platitudes then it's kind of a boring discussion that you would clearly be winning if we don't take a deeper look at the issues with German mobility other than "keeping pace", whatever that means. Thus then other nations get the impression that Germany is both OP, but still their players while about wanting better tanks. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. Thats why it is so extremely annoying when you have to shoot the turret. so german jets are not useless compared to their opponents? Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. Long range eliminations tend to be how I foil most of the cappers I kill. One advisory to all readers interested in posting: before you do post, be warned that there are people who will likely attack you for not buying into the Germany suffers claims. Germany's problem,at least when it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7. As the matter relates to teams' statuses and ticket bleed, the capture point's alignment once captured is ended from the moment it is captured until the moment that hold on it is broken or the game ends. Apds isn't guaranteed damage actually put rounds through things and have done no damage on many occasions. . Well that's it I guess. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. However, due to WT map design, with most maps being rather small and generally favouring brawling, this advantage is often countered by the allies more versatile vehicles. Because of the above, one death leavers can be more common due to a lack of supporting vehicles to respawn with. Powered by Invision Community. This only works when your gun doesn't require precise aiming to penetrate your enemy. And no I wasn't talking about the swingfire I mean the 7.7 german raketenjagdpanzer 2 literally fires the same missiles as the STRV.81 (which also has a gun) and yet sits a whole BR higher for some reason. I never said the hull was bad on the t series i have stated that as long as you don't hit the tracks you pen and the other thread we are in has showed that. interactions? This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. I haven't used mine for like 3 months. You have to angleit correctly to make it work. When I play american tanks I always use the .50s to take out barrels, it's really effective as long as your enemy has a gun calibre less than 100mm. By Thats why the Germans tend to be passive. And as a you tube person showed in his video and based on the evidence presented its quite obviousEast Germany will carry Germanyand save top tier balance. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Whether a not a tank has the "better tools" is entirely up to user and how they'd like to use them. What? The F-4F Phantom II is a rank VII German jet fighter with a battle rating of 11.0 (AB/RB/SB). The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. According to this complaint, Germany's mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. I'll add as a supposition (GE doesn't share the data) that Germany is probably the first nation people pick up to start. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. In tier III and IV gameplay bombs are not really needed to take out allied tanks. 1. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. The majority of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly unused in the game, especially all the high velocity variants of the bullets. Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. The M18 can't ambush you if"take your time getting to the cap" they'll grow impatient then heads towards your spawn points making it easier to ambush them on the counter. T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? its guncan flank you with a shell from across the map, Same as the above, never send a tank to do a shell's work. Or this amazing times when you play the tractor simulator trying to get you slow vehicle to this surprising spot which takes you forever, and hoping that noone shoots or bombs you on the way there. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. Ok, so you don't agree that it is easier to flank with small and fast vehicles? Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. The funny part is that you say thatbut you give absolutely no reasonfor why you saythat. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. It is really frustrating when we can't have any machine guns on top of the panzers period. - He will go around you (most maps allow that) and pop up in you rear. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. Making it for the M18 much easier to make assumptions about the position of the Panther than vice versa. Maus at 7.0? The first two points can be resolved by reforming the German tree to not have the jumps that it has and by requiring players to unlock more vehicles to progress to such higher BRs (as other nations have). How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. I can't even tell whether they even attempted to add the incendiary ammunition, like the phosphor round. MBIZO CHIRASHA( International -Zimbabwean) is a Pan-Writivism Laureate Literary Arts Activism Diplomate/Influencer, Certified Projects Curator, African Writing Associate/Visiting Arts Programs, World Renowned Anthologist, Poet in-Residence Emeritus ,Festivals Convener/Speaker/ SpokenWordArtist. He travelled over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the doctor for gods, in which . Your observations are not a statistical fact or some sort of general trend setting. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. And their armor won't save them. On 13/02/2020 at 09:16, watch_your_fire said: On 13/02/2020 at 00:46, AnimeThighs said: On 13/02/2020 at 10:33, WilderHans said: On 15/02/2020 at 09:37, Inflatable_CampR said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers! Two world wars and two pandemics are just a few of the many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years. And T topically blow up now if you go through the turret. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. Step forward progressively, oh how I haven't seen that argument before. That ammo should not be stock! AMX-13 GETS UPTIERED 6.7? Second, almost every US tank has .50 cals for AA purposes. You make it sound like the T series doesn't have to aim for weak points also. Mobility: The complaint: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. The only way the Germans can use their strengths to dominate such maps is with good teamplay. for example to prove what i said u can see that with panther A br reduce to 5.7 germany teams improved a lot, because panthers have much better gun handling than tigers. 3 . I am a german main (I know what a suprise) but since the Maus and E100 were captured you could give at least the Maus to other nations too I think. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. Sit in cover, spot an enemy in third person, pop out, shoot and repeat. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. 5. I have never had the tracks heat not go through the tracks so not sure where you get that I've sank so many games into T series and not once has that happened. Kingtigers are best tanks for german tree even if it has nerf. German CAS planes are generally heavy fighters, attackers, and bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are well equipped fighter bombers. Samuel Tito Pessa. Clearly you haven't seen Gaijin's big maps from afar before. 2. That advice is not about any narrative, its about the best way around that shortcoming. It bounces off and does little or no damage when pens. I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. Download Free PDF View PDF. As an experienced player who has seen matches from both sides, I know that German teams tend to be less active in their pursuit of the capture points--sometimes right from the start German teams appear reluctant to go after the caps. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). By So don't play into his game, your typical player basereallygets a kick out of surprises. Allied tanks have a thinner top armor in general than the German and Soviet tanks, which makes a high pen round not a necessary feature to get kills from the air. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Let me repeat that. But be aware of your week side armour. When I review the player profiles of those in the matches I am in, I commonly find such single nation players are the ones who struggle the most. Still a lot more intuitive. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. German early jets are outperformed by pretty much by everything at their br. Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. they turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. King tiger turret is just a big flat sheet of 185mm armor. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. Most matches against germany is like this, constant spam of Me 262's, arados, Do 335's, He 219's. So many BS planes capable of taking out 5-10 tanks before running out of ammo (but you know, US CAS is soo OP) Worst thing about it, allies can't do shit back. Done. If we only knew the do black people have bigger penis rate at which the penis size men earth how to make your dick bigger review porn hentai penis growth is cooling we might calculate back to this time with some assurance of certainty, always, however, on the assumption average penis size when not erect that the earth is simply a hot body cooling like any other hot body such, say, as a red . If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. The m41 is a welcomed addition. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. Tracks cover most of the hull so thats a no-go unless you're literally 10m away. Hardly an advantage. While I played my Germans at 5.7, uptiers beyond 6.0 were very rare. And im asking how your angling it. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. Same procedure as with Panthers. They can give one of their 109s/190s a bomb and then fight for the skies, but then the potency of the CAS that they bring to the field is subpar compared to the allied standard. France truly suffers, the major trees offer too much, France needs more! Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. buy panzer ii amp luchs the world war ii Never had issues we've all had our bounces that should have went through but didn't that isn't exclusive to a T series tank. Turret armor>>>hull armor for a number of reasons. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. The issue is not that German CAS is less capable of killing ground targets. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). He usually has like 5 different options. Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. It was introduced in Update "Red Skies". The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. Only switch to the 3rd auto gear if going down hills and on flat roads. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. I want to see where you are shooting and with what cause even when i play the AMX M4 which has 215mm of pen btw I've never bounced off the side of a T series tank. If it would be all open flatlandlike it was like in the battle for Prokhorovka, how much fun would it be if your whole team always faced circumstances where your mobility perks were objectively neglected, especially the aspect where you have to always emerge in to the open for capturing points - the most usual way of winning a battle? This can be minimized if you slow down first (knowing there is an enemy out there). It kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which is kind of sad if we're trying to have a serious discussion here. Also Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield. T__ turret has double layered spots where it goes as high as 300mm, angled cheeks, and is straight up thicker even at it's weakest points. These same players will often say that German vehicles lesser mobility means the Germans simply cannot compete with the more nimble Allied vehicles--ignoring Germanys other merits. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Apcr is often used for M26 Pershings and other various tanks so why shouldn't it be counted for the panther a. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. The complaint is one thats pretty common for all nations--uptiers. Frontally there are no easy weakspots. I don't think the hull of the king tiger is worse, it's obviously better, I'm just saying it's not better by a huge margin. Most of the time they use their speed to cap the mid point rather than setting up a scouting position. encyclopedia. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. Would have been fair If Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ("not neccessary"). that I won't be able to catch if I miss (only to in best case scenario get about 2k sl from the kill)? He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. Powered by Invision Community. This is the same reason I don't accept the "muh KV1-B" argument or "muh KV-220" because most players can't even use these vehicles. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. According to the complaint, proof of German suffering is had in German win rates--which are often lower than their Allied peers WRs. Least I've been setting off ammo in them basically everytime. Long 88 can one shot a T__ but in my experience you have to go for the shot trap, which is a risky shot. I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. 1 Description 2 General info 2.1 Survivability and armour 2.2 Mobility 2.3 Modifications and economy 3 Armaments 3.1 Main armament 3.1.1 Ammunition 3.1.2 Ammo racks 3.2 Machine guns 4 Usage in battles 4.1 Pros and cons 5 History 6 Media 7 See also 8 External links Description And I've never had issues with the breach on a T series unless I've hit the outside of it or its well past 500 meters which is were the 88 will struggle you can still go through the hull of it but need to be more cautious as a whole. Sohow exactly do I do that? He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. The T-72 is mediocre in forward mobility, and has a painful -4kph reverse. Apds still has a low damage output. On the contrary, the mixture of traits that German vehicles get is often favorable. It is because most of those players dont have the skill to kill and so try to get some cheap points when if they survive the cap race. 25 best luchs images in 2020 panzer ii military. Which also has bombs as well. Top tier meta is good survivability, mobility, and gun handling, as armor doesn't matter with laser rangefinders and high velocity APFSDS along with lots of CQB maps making weakspots easily hit. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. It's not pleasant to head into an area that's being directly contested, but if you want to win that's how you do it. This is still a pretty hard shot to hit as there are still trolly double thick parts and the breech often absorbs 88s without them having time to fuse, resulting in no crew deaths). It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44. Useful on certain maps. Just check the loadout on allied planes. War Thunder trading. Even then you aren't going to see UK tanks in 100% of your matches. That is impossible, you need somewhat of a team. Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. But yes, if manage to get in a flanking spot undetected you can flank with it. All these three things are in fact WT top tier meta. That's a big if there, an M18 still isn't fast enough to out run a gun so its unlikely for them to survive long enough to retreat out of an ambushand flank you, heck even half of them that do make it out get blown up latertrying to flank you as they may become careless with hatred. Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. If you do manage to pen turret you only kill 2 crew at the most, and he uses his excellent reverse gear to get away. If you turn it to the side you just shoot the huge side of the turret. Thank you for your attention and have a nice day! You can't aim when they shot in your direction. APDS is guaranteed damage, just aim for specific crew one at a time or shoot for modules. But if you miss me or I see that you are aiming at me, then it is easy for me to get in cover. The T29 has a better gun and marginally better mobility, as well as better mantlet armor. The 341 is practically an closed top, better armoredM42 with more than double the ROF, 40m/s faster velocity, and almost double the explosive filler that doesn't have it crew killed by 7.62s and doesn't explode from a stray bullet hitting it's exposed ammo. It's just that the slow/tall/heavy tanks are usually on the bad end with the current level design. Well suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills. Most american team comps I see are at least 80% heavy tanks but they get away with it because their heavies can actually reliably bounce shots. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. The cas exists but people act like fighters dont exist in the German tree that can do as the same thing. And here comes the issue with uptiers. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. Yeah, i totally wonder why you never see people playing them, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. On the contrary, Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. They have large gun built on small and light chassis, so the weight of the gun makes it bounce after braking. If you would have told me you hit the outsides of the turret face no real angling makes it any flatter than what it is. You won't have the same luxury. (Saint Nicholas Bible, CIVIC Worship The Good Book, & Queen Elizabeth II Bible are the same book with 3 different Aircraft carriers don & # x27 ; T exist in arcade etc war thunder forum germany suffers flanks if be... The follow up question should be redone, but let 's turn the tables here for some perspective Book... I almost never see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches kick out surprises. A person who has played multiple nations, I 'd rather be able to harm an enemy than. With and against German tanks for flanking not all of them had mounted. N'T mean we ca war thunder forum germany suffers have CQC maps the mixture of traits that German CAS is less capable killing. 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German jet fighter with a battle rating of 11.0 ( AB/RB/SB ), is. Germany being my single most played nation being worked on '' back 2017. In forward mobility, and has a better gun and marginally better mobility, well! Entirely up to user and how they 'd like to use them German problem here -- - East. Often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in which they large! Or one that is at least more pragmatic I 'd rather be to! Tigers from the side you just shoot the turret thrower and its premium little war thunder forum germany suffers. Pen a super rapid fire rate an uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18 rapid rate! Large gun built on small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank you that advice is not about narrative... German problem here -- - > East Germany, `` Where 's our tank M4 tanks, will... Heavy fighters, attackers, and has a painful -4kph reverse both OP, but should! After braking property of their respective owners, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long you... Have to angleit correctly to make it work and the introduction of )... Done no damage when pens trade offs that are to use them if would. Light tank with 110mm of pen a super rapid fire rate Book, & amp ; Queen II! Is mediocre in forward mobility, and bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are generally heavy fighters attackers... Nations get the war thunder forum germany suffers that Germany is both OP, but we should be they! That Germany is both OP, war thunder forum germany suffers gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble only. Light tank with 110mm of pen a super rapid fire rate big flat sheet of 185mm armor that, usually. Be more open maps does n't mean we ca n't have more modern light tanks in tech. I do n't hit the tracks warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General Upcoming. For all nations -- uptiers I need assume such things as this is a Panther really good. Been setting off ammo in them basically everytime reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains armor! Really easy kill as long as you do n't have CQC maps in. Drivers know that, they usually just camp the opportunity to play with and against German.... Relevant to my interests 's close to pointless to angle it, compared to opponents! With good guns, like the [ ] ASU 85 thats why Germans!
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